The neighbors are restless restive nuts

I have a problem. The downstairs neighbors have gone mental.

We've had a running dialogue with them for a couple years now, but talks have escalated since TwoBert went mobile. Archie still says he doesn't hear anything; the Freak Girlfriend (FG) is the one with the problem, and when the crisis first broke she routinely sent Archie up to remind us, quite easygoingly, that four-year-olds thump when they walk. Weekdays aren't a problem, they said, because of work. But could we keep the kids quiet until around 9am on weekends?

(Isn't it just awesome when people with no experience with kids want to tell you all about how to handle your kids?)

We've tried to explain that keeping two young children immobile for two hours is about as  feasible as collecting squirrels in a pillow case, and the words just bounce off their foreheads and fall to the floor. We understand their plight, and we want to help. We've told them we will do all we can, short of turning our house into a stalag. We even switched the bedrooms, so the kids weren't over the neighbors' heads in the morning. And every so often we'd run into FG in the elevator, and she'd say everything was fine, thanks so much for our courtesy, you're great, you're wonderful, please run for Congress so I can vote for you.

Over the past few months, though, we've gotten signs that they're starting to lose it. It began with the music. Every time one of the boys caused a loud bang, someone downstairs would crank up the 2-billion gigawatt stereo for about a minute. Just to fire a shot across our bow.

Then, about a week ago, I found some paper on the floor in our hallway. I was planning to throw it out until I saw "SUPERNANNY" written across the top. Old dopey me didn't think much of it, but my wife saw the application and put it together right away. (Then I mentioned it at dinner the other night, and all three women reacted with audible gasps and omigods. Because women can recognize right away when someone is waging a War of Passive Aggression, whereas men only think of football and boobies.)

Last night, FG frantically rang our doorbell about a dozen times, and when I opened the door she was fighting back tears. Before I could say hello she launched into a monologue that sounded something like this <deep breath..... >: "Please please the thumping is so loud and I can't concentrate anymore on anything and please all we want is to be your neighbors and live merrily and coexist and you're obviously great parents who know how to discipline your kids and we want to work with you about maybe working out a schedule and maybe the kids can run around on alternate days and can't we please just live merrily and work with each other and OK? Please?" And then she ran off.

I stood in the doorway, blinking. "Run around on alternate days"? Did I hear that right?

I'm feeling stumped. What's left to do, apart from carpeting the place in deep-pile shag? Robert has so far offered this: "If you give me 1,000 ropes, I could stick them to the ceiling and swing around so we don't thump anymore."

This is the best idea I've heard so far, and unless you can suggest anything better I might have to head to the hardware store to see if you can buy carabiners in bulk.

Comments

[imjeffp]

Buy the neighbor an iPod and a pair of noise-cancelling headphones.

Install a rubber floor like the Bud Light commercial.

[abogada]

Slippers instead of shoes?

[Peach]

Is there anyway you can plan quiet activities in the morning until 9am? Like crawling into the big bed and reading together, or something like that? Or taking them out for an early morning walk to get bagels to eat in the park? (OK, so not such a great idea in winter...)

And maybe you can let the neighbors know the nap schedule and such, or adjust it by a few minutes here and there to let them sleep more in the mornings? I don't know how this would work with your schedules, but I'd guess anything could help.

Or what about a tippy-toe game, where they must walk around on tippy toes until a certain hour? (OK, this would only work on the one with coordination...)

I used to be downstairs neighbor girl and NEVER had the courage to say anything to upstairs family... I was totally stir-crazy for about a year because, at the time, *I* couldn't think of suggestions for them. Now that I'm not sleep-deprived, I can think of tons of suggestions.

[Tammy]

How about they can move?

[Peeved Michelle]

The neighbors should carpet their ceiling or tack up those foam mattress egg crate things. Or be drunk all the time. Or wake up earlier and leave the house. Or move. Or remember that they live in an apartment in New York City and it could be worse than having a couple kids live above them.

[Jena]

If you thought they (the neighbors) were trustworthy enough, you could suggest that they take the boys for a weekend. They should return the boys along with a long and heartfelt apology sating that anyone who can deal with 2 young boys EVERY DAY should be given a medal and efforts should be made to make YOUR life easier, not theirs. This of course means that FG would be in charge of your boys for 24-48 hours. Could she do it with out completely losing it? Or them?
--JB

[Andrew]

I was going to suggest slippers as well, but I also know (thanks to my 5- and 2-year-olds) that it doesn't always help. And there's always knees, elbows, hips, shoulders, heads...

Two things I could suggest. One, tell the neighbour that you'll put down [insert favourite resilient flooring here] if they foot most of the bill. The other would be to have expanding foam insulation (polyurethane or icynene) put into their ceiling/your floor. If anything is going to provide silence, that would be it.

Third left-field suggestion: swap apartments with them?

Best of luck with it...

[Kyran]

Kids have to be allowed to be kids in their own homes. This includes an age-appropriate level of stomping and banging while the sun is up. Either she wasn't allowed to be one, or she has forgotten that she was. Both make me sad for her, but she is the one having the problem. I don't see what else you can reasonably do.

Here is a little tool I have found extremely helpful in discerning whether I am taking on responsibilities that aren't mine:

1) What is the problem?
2) Who's problem is it?
3) Where does the action lie?

By the time I get to number three, nine times out ten, it is pretty clear that there is nothing for me to do.

Good luck.

[ann (fchen)]

area rugs or carpets would probably help mitigate the noise. however, it's all probably a losing proposition - i have two boys and the only solution my husband has come up with on a weekend to keep them quiet so i can "sleep in" is to either take them out of the house on a saturday morning or settle them in the basement (with the first floor in between us as a buffer!). my two boys are 7 & 4 and do more wrestling/arguing and interacting now than ever before, so i supsect it's only going to ratchet up the scale as twobert gets older. time to move to the burbs!
:)

[anna]

Anyone who rings your doorbell twelve times and suggests that you work out a schedule in which your children move freely about their own home on alternate nights is...deranged.

[JRL]

Wow, people have to have kids two floors away to sleep in? Heck, as long as there aren't fingers prying my eyes open or a jackhammer on our roof, I can sleep in.

Maybe you could suggest that you go down to their apartment while they walk around on your floor...or the couples divvy themselves up -- you listen with one of them downstairs and see if there is actually any real noise downstairs while the kids bop around and then switcheroo.

That way you can tell if there is some weird amplification process in their ceiling and they can see if mere normal bopping around really seems all that loud.

I swear, if they'd just have kids, they'd be tired enough to sleep.

[meg]

Send the mice down to their apartment so they can focus on something else, or sabotage their relationship so GF moves out. I would guess she's got BIGGER issues going on then hearing the sweet pitter-patter-thump of two boys living their lives.

[Lisa V]

ear plugs for sleeping and a white noise machine for the rest of the day.

[Shanna]

Hi,
Coming out of lurkdom to comment. First question I have is, what does she need to concentrate on? Is she studying? Isn't there a library she could go to for that then? And HELLO LADY, these are little BOYS, in their own home! Someone else used the word deranged about her suggestion to have the run around on alternate days. Maybe invite her up for a drink sometime and let her see the boys in action and maybe she will realize that alternating days for them to move just isn't going to happen.

Wishing you lots of luck with that situation. At least she hasn't gone to the landlord with complaints. People like that usually get their way and you all could end up on the street. Maybe ask the landlord if there is anything he can think of that would help the situation. Wasn't this chick aware of the fact that you had kids before she moved in with her boyfriend? And is she on the lease that she even has a say in the matter?
Sorry, I got worked up there for a minute. I hope it works out for you and she leaves or at least leaves you alone. I might have some ropes and hooks I could send you for Robert's idea. Let me know. ;)

[Christina]

I have to say that I really enjoy your blog.

As a mother of three kids (two boys, one girl) I've had that conversation with many a neighbor. First strategy: Guilt them into silence. Take the boys with you deliver a plate of cookies. Let her see their adorable precious faces up close. It'll keep her quiet for a few weeks and allow her to see that you did not have children with the sole intent to ruin her Saturday morning sleep time.

Second strategy: Do nothing and feel no more guilt. People who lack the tolerance necessary to live under kids usually end up moving out anyway. Her Saturday mornings are not your problem. After all, would she rather live under two noisy toddlers or a pair of crack-dealing, ice smoking hookers? Life could be much, much worse.

Hang in there!

[Meepers]

You know what? They need to grow some brain cells and realize KIDS. MAKE. NOISE. Come ON. I don't have kids, but guess what? I can deal with the fact that they run and jump and yell and stomp and fall and scream and play loudly, and not just during Scheduled Noisy Time. Nothin' you can do about it that you haven't already done. The "Run around on alternate days" "suggestion" smacks of pure crazy (although it would make a great little blurb for under your title) don't they remember being children? The hell is wrong with them?

This is one of those times I really hate being boxed in as a "Have-Not"- these people are giving those of us that are sans offspring a bad name.

[Rebecca]

I suggest that she have a drink and chill the hell out. Apartment living = Noise

Duh.

[emjaybee]

I would LOVE to have her problem. My neighbors have 6-7 people illegally living in their apartment (legal limit is 3, they're WAY over that), and enjoy moving furniture and vacuuming (yes! I don't know why!) to loud music at midnight. They may also be bowling, or having wrestling matches involving six or more, from the sounds of it. Anyway. Two little boys running around during daylight hours is nothing. Tell her you've done all you can, she needs a white noise machine and a good set of headphones (and probably also a shrink, not that you should say so), and let it go.

[Beth]

Leave rental applications in their hallway.

[jenB]

that is truly awful. the woman is obviously a nutter.

and i also like the rental applications or real estate listing in the hallway. in my head anyways, i am certain that would make things worse.

i know my CAT is heavy footed enough that we can hear him upstairs, but it doesn't really bug me. :-)

[JDR]

De-lurking to comment.

I am moving out of my apartment THIS WEEK because my upstairs neighbor is inconsiderate about noise at odd hours. And the thing is, unless you're the one dealing with the noise - loud banging at 3am, walking full tilt in clogs at all hours, moving furniture and vaccuming in the middle of the night - you don't realize how absolutely crazy it can make you. She may be crazy, but try living underneath thud-thud-thud all the time. And what she's concentrating on might just be reading or talking or yoga. Who knows?

Even friends of mine who have children complain when their upstairs neighbors' children make noise.

So good luck. Somehow, I suspect no one will win in this one.

[rachel]

you could give them those white noise machines. you know, the ones they have out in front of all the doctor/therapy offices. But I think you'd have to give them a lot. Or some tapestries for their ceiling.

My kids love forts. Maybe the boys could play in giant bed-forts all morning?

My downstairs neighbor once complained of the thumping when I was making pasta. That was loooong before kids, so I think downstairs neighbors just like to complain.

[Amanda]

Wait. Isn't this why they invented New Jersey?

(for them, obviously)

[Sheila]

I know how you feel. I lived under the people who let their teenage son's four friends move in and jump/yell/wrestle/play loud music/bowl at all hours of the night and day. It was enough to make me insane. And I have lived over the child-less couple who complained non-stop when our two-year old daughter would trip and fall/cry/wake up at night, and especially when she was learning about the fun of jumping. It was enough to make me insane. Other than talking to the landlord, I don't have any other suggestions, I just know how neighbors can be such pains!

[Kizz]

There's no real good answer here. From a legal standpoint, though, isn't it standard in NYC leases to "require" 80% of the apartment be carpeted for just this reason? I know the percentage of us who actually carpet even a 10th that much of our apartments is very very small but, if you end up in a legal situation, (totally possible) you might want to cover yourself. Some places also build "quiet hours" into leases. I know no one every enforces these (Oh god do I know, some day ask me about the high spirited teen element that socializes directly under my bedroom window until 2am all summer long) but if FG decides to remove the passive from her aggressive you want to be sure you have equal footing.

[susie]

It could totally be worse for them. I once lived downstairs from 2 college guys that were great and only had an occasional party. But every weekend the guy in the bedroom over mine brought a girl home and with his squeaky bed they boinked away for HOURS. That is much harder to confront.

"Yeah...listen dude, could you maybe boink a little less...enthusiastically?"

[TSM-terrifically superiorily mediocre]

I definately liked the idea of leaving rental agreements outside their door.

Let yourself go. You can't do any more to make them happy, and it's probably time to say so.

"Sorry...we've done all we can, and it's not reasonable to ask us to do any more than we are doing. Again, sorry."

Yep, then let yourself be ok with it.

[E]

I like the last suggestion about telling them they are unreasonable. They will never understand unless they have kids, much less get married.

[shula]

Let it ride, LOD. They're going to move out any minute now.

Or at least she is.

Your boys aren't the problem. Just the symptom.

[MyBestInvest]

Jetpacks for the kids.

[kidsmom]

Say, "I'm sorry" (you are sorry)

Then say, "I'll do what I can to make it better" (since your children are blessed with working legs, you can do nothing about their noisy walking=you can do nothing.)

They can move to the suburbs in NJ.

[liz]

Oy vey. I vote for carpet and a sincere, "they're kids. They're in bed at a reasonable hour every night and they wake up at a reasonable hour every day. At least we're not blasting our stereo at 2 AM. Consider yourself lucky. It could be much, much worse. Ask anyone with teenagers over them."

[pnuts mama]

i'm abandoning all sympathy and social consciousness in this case and thinking you should tell GF to just suck it up. that's life in the city esp. when you have upstairs neighbors. boo hoo. that girl's karma is pointing her straight towards a *real* neighbor from hell.

[MammaLoves]

First time living in an apartment babe?!

Chill the fuck out!!

But I do like Robert's idea. Sounds fun. And just think what you and the Mrs. could do when the little ones are sleeping!!

[Ash]

We have this problem here too. Paper thin walls, paper thin floors. We got wooden floors put in with special sound proofing underlay, but it still wasn't enough for our downstairs neighbour.

We have a shoes off policy and a 'no running in the house' policy but still, they thump and there is nothing we can do about it. No shag pile carpeting for us either.

The downstairs neighbour, who is gay, in his 40s and doesn't like kids, had been up here complaining repeatedly and suggesting we move to a house.

Strangely after I suggested that perhaps he should be the one to move he hasn't complained again.

[Phil]

You could send your kids away to live on a farm....or, keep them heavily sedated at all times?

What if you injected their legs with botox? Would it temporarily paralyze them to keep them from running around?

[Sarah Brown]

I like this ropes theory a lot.

[Liesel Elliott]

This situation really sucks. But since I was in a similar situation when I lived in Brooklyn - childless woman who worked from home below us - I do actually have a suggestion that made our lives a little easier.

You know the rubber mats they sometimes have at daycare centers? I bought those. Here's the link of the place I bought mine from:
http://www.wondermat.com/
They also sell similar ones at Home Depot I think.

We live in Jersey now and we are still using them (even though not for the original reason). Under my son's loft bed, in case he falls, and in out basement room to make the floor less hard, cold and cement-y.

Of course, you could just leave a few bottles of vodka (tequila, maybe?) outside of her door every week in the hope that she will get snoggered enough not to care about what's happening in your apartment.

[21stCenturyMom]

I'm with jetpacks - a win win all around. Or rope - only instead of installing it on the ceiling you take it down to GF and say "here - go piss up this!" but that would wreak of incivility.

If you really feel compelled to do something you could go to Home Depot and get those interlocking rubber pads that people put in their garages and try that on the boy's bedroom floor. I think they make them in bright primary colors and sell them in children's stores for 6 times as much money if you don't like the black.

That could backfire, though as they boys test the relative bounce quotient of various items including themselves.

Or - you could just hang in there until Ms. BSC moves.

[Nicole]

Trapezes. And nets, of course, for safety.

Or you could leave ads for therapists in her hallway :)

I like the "guilt them with cookies and sweet faces" idea - homemade cookies, even :)

Damn. Now I want a cookie.

[Raine]

Depending on your wife's acting skills and sense of outrage you can really make this fun.

Get your wife to add some belly padding, and go down and talk to crazy_neighbour. She can quietly apologize and explain that she's just been too tired lately to bring the boys outside as much as she'd like and that they've been acting up since they were told about the new baby to arrive in the summer. A few belly pats and maybe a baby on board t-shirt should make the situation clear.

Bet you they move out at the end of their lease!

[Mom101]

Another audible gasp this time coming from across the country. You know, it's hard to be entirely accommodating when she's at once reasonable to your face, but passive aggressive when you walk away.

I sympathize, truly. But that's apartment living in NY. Many buildings have a 80% of the floor space carpeted rule. Short of that, it's just luck of the draw in this town. You could move out tomorrow, and her new upstairs neighbors are one-legged performance artists who thump around all day long. No guarantees.

Supernanny. That's some fucked up shit. Maybe she should go work at Starbucks on alternate days.

[Karen Rani]

I made you sumping.

[Sheryl]

Haven't these people heard of ear plugs or noise canceling headphones?

It's difficult once you've tuned in to a certain noise to tune it out, in fact sometimes that makes you more sensitive to it, and I suspect that's what's happened with GF. And she's a nutter.

[Gabrielle]

I suggest I gift basket…….filled with

1. Large box of ear plugs

2. Sleeping pills

3. Prozac

4. Soothing relaxing scented candles

5. A schedule of your kids bed times so that GF can go to bed at the appropriate time, that way GF will think that she has had a sleep in.

6. A bottle of booze, with a recipe for a martini or 2 to be taken with the sleeping pills and Prozac, B/4 Bed.

[Robin in San Jose]

Oooh. Kinda sympathizing with both sides here. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get two little boys to not thump. End of story.

It is also a miserable situation to live downstairs from thumpy neighbors. Unfortunately this is one of the hazards that goes with being a downstairs neighbor. Upstairs neighbors pretty much always mean thumping, no matter who it is. FG needs to suck it up or move.

[JB]

Just delurking to say that I am on the downstairs end of an upstairs-downstairs situation right now - two young guys moved in about a year ago and since then our lives have often been hell. The thumping, the guitar, the parties. I am often on the verge of tears myself.

Not to side with your neighbors, just to say that I can empathize with how one loud noise can ruin a night's sleep, and how crappy and on-edge living underneath lots of noise makes me feel.

That's a no-win situation, unfortunately.

[damian]

i'm still laughing my ass off at the "run around on alternate days" comment.

instead of carpets, maybe some rubber matting. i don't know if it'll help very much, but at least you can show that you're trying to do something about it.

and if that doesn't work - screw 'em. you're trying to do the best you can and stuff happens.

kids are a long term 'unchangeable disruption' to those living around them - just like construction work, a new night club or a neighbour that pounds out taylor dane albums every weekend at 3am.

you're doing the best you can - they need to decide what to do about it themselves, not ask you to sound proof the kids.

[ellen]

I am a parent, but I sincerely mean this-

A big fuck you to all you entitled bitches.

[Caroline]

One of the first things you learn as an apartment dweller is if you don't want to be disturbed by constant noise, don't move into a first floor apartment. I once had neighbors who complained if my room mates and I went to the bathroom in the middle of the night. You are doing everything you can, and it seems as if this woman is being rather unreasonable. It might be time to have your landlord intercede.